#26 2017-02-27 01:42:17

willie
Trusted Member
Registered: 2013-05-05
Posts: 405

Re: Feedback requested

1. Forget about expecting people to read stuff before buying.  They won't.  It also doesn't help that lots of LES users are non-native and non-fluent English speakers.  It also doesn't matter what boxes they check during signup.  See here, from another context: http://i.imgur.com/2bEWKNS.png

2. Don't proxy tickets to the forum since they might have private info inside.

3. Shutting off ticket entry for LES sounds good if you have a way to authorize or open a ticket in response to a forum post if a ticket is actually justified.  So if someone says container XYZ has (real problem that calls for an actual ticket) then you could answer with "ticket 123456 is now open, please respond to it there" (connected to their Inceptionhosting account so they'd log in to their client area to respond). 

4. Stop accepting paypal?  That would get rid of Paypal chargebacks.  Don't know if other processors except bitcoin have similar issues.

Last edited by willie (2017-02-27 01:42:32)

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#27 2017-02-27 03:13:27

oliau
Low End Boss Down Under
From: Planet Earth
Registered: 2014-06-09
Posts: 36

Re: Feedback requested

For now I've removed PayPal as an option and set it back in stock (Sydney LES).

Am monitoring this thread though and will see if this change affects behaviour of users in any way. I suspect I'll get a ticket within a week 'I WANT LES WHY NO PAYPAL'...

:-)

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#28 2017-02-27 06:21:39

mikho
Low End Mod
From: Hell and gore == Sweden
Registered: 2013-03-02
Posts: 1,297
Website

Re: Feedback requested

we could all benefit of a nice knowledge base.
Something wiki style or articles in WHMCS?

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#29 2017-02-28 00:13:45

DavidGestionDBI
Provider-Moderator
From: Montreal, Canada
Registered: 2015-01-10
Posts: 590
Website

Re: Feedback requested

mikho wrote:

we could all benefit of a nice knowledge base.
Something wiki style or articles in WHMCS?

If we keep the concept of LES community, this would need to be more like a DokuWiki or similar.
WHMCS KB would remove the community thing.

Would be nice to see all host and some users to make tutorial, script, etc in ONE centralised place.


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#30 2017-02-28 02:56:56

greybeard
Trusted Member
Registered: 2015-01-09
Posts: 9

Re: Feedback requested

My aud 0.02 worth.
Using LES as it's a cheap way of getting a remote server to occasionally play/test/confirm operation of my own servers/systems.
Was originally signed up with VitWire, had a couple of minor issues when it first started up and when things kept getting changed/updated. Did so because it was very cheap.
Once I had my head around the NAT concept, which required a small amount of research, all good up until the melt down at the end of the provider.
Changed to Gestion DBI, signed up, worked, no problem.

You've only got to read some of the support requests posted on here to see that some people are stretching their knowledge and learning from it and others are always going to be a burden and insisting on more than they signed up for.
I'd be inclined to provide zero ticket support for a LES product. Online only and if it takes a day or so to sort out, so be it. It's not like you've purchased a 24x7 HA services with full backup and support.
What I am not sure about though is how you deal with still accepting payment via PayPal and some idiot disputing the service and demanding a refund.
It's hard to manage 'stupid'. Arguing with them or trying to be rational takes to much time and effort.
The idea of a wiki where all of the knowledge is bought together is a good one. Projects like LEDE and OpenWRT as open source projects only provide support via forums and a wiki. To me LES is a similar concept apart from the (very) small price paid to access the service.

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#31 2017-02-28 07:06:16

mikho
Low End Mod
From: Hell and gore == Sweden
Registered: 2013-03-02
Posts: 1,297
Website

Re: Feedback requested

I'm up for the dokuwiki.

There is also a FluxBB authentication plugin for dokuwiki available.
https://gist.github.com/franzliedke/5743534 
 
That way there is only one place to set who can add/edit/delete wiki content.

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#32 2017-03-01 11:21:26

LowEnder
Trusted Member
Registered: 2015-08-21
Posts: 38

Re: Feedback requested

Just closing any unrequested ticket by LES users with a default response to use the forum instead is'nt an option i guess? This would be the most simple solution imo but i guess i am overlooking something here. Nothing wrong with a small price increase for economic reasons but i would'nt like subsidizing a bunch of technically challenged and visually impaired morons in form of basic support.

Relaying tickets to the forum to be handled by the community would be GREAT (in capital letters that is). Sadly (besides being hard to implement and unprofessional) it would probably backfire somehow on the hosts involved. Still, id love to handle the TOR guy with a quote from the TOS, some reflinks for glasses or dictionaries and a nice "Thank you for calling LES community helpdesk" big_smile

LES wiki is a nice idea too and dokuwiki is pretty good imo.

Last edited by LowEnder (2017-03-01 11:23:51)

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#33 2017-03-02 04:39:32

willie
Trusted Member
Registered: 2013-05-05
Posts: 405

Re: Feedback requested

Another idea: stop selling individual servers, but sell in bundles of 3 or 4 instead, so the person has to pony up 10 euro or so to get started, which would filter out the users trying to spend the absolute minimum possible.  The more motivated/interest users might pay more attention.

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#34 2017-03-02 19:58:54

mikho
Low End Mod
From: Hell and gore == Sweden
Registered: 2013-03-02
Posts: 1,297
Website

Re: Feedback requested

I found a backup of the old wiki I once had.
It's now live (with another template) @ https://wiki.lowendguide.com


Looks terrible and the content is sparse... give me ideas on what topics should be posted, commonly asked questions in tickets etc ??

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#35 2017-03-03 06:23:28

LowEnder
Trusted Member
Registered: 2015-08-21
Posts: 38

Re: Feedback requested

Had a quick look. True, not much there yet as you say but kept me interested enough to look if i could sign up (not possible atm i guess?) and add/clean a bit of stuff wink

No idea about tickets but judging from the forum hot topics would probably be:

"How do i connect to my vps?"
"How do i host a website?"
"Why did i get terminated after running X"

Tickets likely include stuff like:

"What on earth did i just buy? Refund, asap!!11!1"
"How do i internet?"
"Why do you suck so much?"
"Google what?"

There is clearly little hope with those people but maybe a page to explain them why this attitude won't get them anywhere is at least worth a try.

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#36 2017-03-03 07:17:26

mikho
Low End Mod
From: Hell and gore == Sweden
Registered: 2013-03-02
Posts: 1,297
Website

Re: Feedback requested

LowEnder wrote:

Had a quick look. True, not much there yet as you say but kept me interested enough to look if i could sign up (not possible atm i guess?) and add/clean a bit of stuff wink

I turned off the registration to avoid spam bots at this stage. Having to watch the decay of Lowendbox wiki tought me a lesson or two. wink

There is no connection to the forum, not sure if Backtogeek allows it smile
If he does, all authorization is controlled by the forum ACL, perhaps we then should create an "editor" group and those who are members can edit the wiki ?
Unless one of the providers would like to run it smile

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#37 2017-03-03 07:47:01

Backtogeek
Low End Boss
From: ~/
Registered: 2013-02-13
Posts: 3,498
Website

Re: Feedback requested

While I have no objection to a 'wiki' I personally hate them with a passion when it comes to actually managing/updating them smile

Would be nice to custom build something, I am already having a custom rewrite of the site forum done, perhaps I could get something done.


http://LittleHappyCloud.net KVM VPS with 1TB Bandwidth for €3.00

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#38 2017-03-04 20:49:43

WSS
Trusted Member
Registered: 2016-12-22
Posts: 255

Re: Feedback requested

I know I'm late to the party- but I've really wanted to mull over both my side as a user, and as I see your side- as a former provider (AS2828 represent!)

The best way I've seen to ensure people actually read the content beyond checkboxes is to actually ask questions which use the whole writ as a simple array with each paragraph being a terminator, similar to copyright protection for late 80s/early 90s PC games.  "The third sentence in the second paragraph ${X} is:", and so forth.

The true answer is that no, people won't read if they aren't forced to, and they're used to this whole "Do it for me" mentality thanks to the greenhorn upstarts who think they're going to change the world- and still don't mind wasting 10 hours on a $2 task because they're still getting paid, either way.

Explaining how NAT works is far beyond most, but telling them that it is like a game of "Telephone" won't help, because then they'll be worried about that MitM which is generally the same machine with a different MAC, so-

You're kind of fucked.  Maybe require them to tell you which RFCs describe private networking as yet another litmus test?  smile

The one thing i-83 did which I thought made good sense is to not list the NAT packages under the QuadHost domain, and force you to go to the separate site to purchase anything.   Of course, I know you guys via LES, but moreover- your existing companies.  Perhaps it wouldn't be an all-together bad idea to set yourselves up with a meta-domain and subdomain yourselves for location-company.metadomain.com up to the point of checkout?  Of course that means more time wasted on WHMCS, too.

I don't mind paying a bit more to keep my services- I generally use them to help debug my stuff and sometimes test Geocentric tools I (no longer) work on.  I'm well aware that the forum is the only means of support, and I accept that.  Anyone I refer to you is also aware of that.  Please don't give up on all of us.  There are still smart people who would be at a huge loss without these services.

--

Append: What Virmach did, after positioning themselves as a loss-leader, was to charge $3 flat for any account change.  Reinstall, migration, New IPs- anything.  I could see that working for any "Not-Our-Fault" tickets.  Make sure the client clicks a "I will be charged for this support ticket if it falls out of the realm of our providing you this virtual machine being online (to the best of our ability with no guaranteed SLA)."

Last edited by WSS (2017-03-04 20:53:06)


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#39 2017-03-05 09:35:51

Backtogeek
Low End Boss
From: ~/
Registered: 2013-02-13
Posts: 3,498
Website

Re: Feedback requested

Interesting ideas, little update on where I am, I have made some changes to whmcs so that anyone with only an LES product cannot open a ticket at all, initially I just set it so they could not open a support ticket but they just opened billing or sales tickets for support instead despite ticking a box that states 'this is not to be used for support'

So thanks to those people if you have an LES product you can't open a ticket at all now, you won't even see the option.

I tried charging for support for none infrastructure issues, only 1.50 per ticket, after 10 times and 10 cancellations and immediate PayPal disputes for the original payment as well, I gave up on that idea.

So I still need to get the pro rated module made, I will be putting the price up to 3.50 however this is in response to PayPal, stripe and whmcs fees going up only in April.

although the main LES site has not been updated yet as far as I am concerned there are no further host or location restrictions, anyone is welcome to advertise any yearly budget deals here, David is welcome to do a NAT service in London, I could do Canada etc (although I don't have any new locations planned).


http://LittleHappyCloud.net KVM VPS with 1TB Bandwidth for €3.00

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